Articles & Advice

Zen and the Art of A&R - Round II

Part 3: Playing the Game

JEM: Brian, didn't you pass on a band because their live show wasn't together?

BRIAN: That was Belle And Sebastian, and that wasn't the only reason. That same scout in London turned us on to them. They write really classic, literary songs, which traditionally doesn't mean much in this day and age. I saw them in London and they were really shambolic -- the songs were still great, but there was no way they wanted to play the game that major labels would desire them to play, because they wouldn't even have their picture taken -- actually they just had their first picture in one of the British papers a couple of weeks ago. They weren't that interested in being a great band, they were really just interested in writing great songs.

JIM: And that brings up a really good point: everyone wants something different out of their lives or their band or their musical career. Sometimes those things fit really well with what major labels do, sometimes they fit with what independent labels want to do, and sometimes they don't. You have to be very open about what you want, and everyone needs to be on the same page when you're creating a working relationship, because obviously things are going to change as you go along. But you need to know the level of commitment from both sides.

BRIAN: Signing to a label does not mean you're just giving up your day job -- and often you won't even do that -- but you're probably going to be working harder than you ever have in your whole life, and a lot of that work won't be musical. Especially if your record is well-received.

JEM: Well, then it becomes a whole other game. I've dealt with so many bands who demanded attention, and then didn't want to do the things you'd set up for them: they'd blow off interviews and photo shoots and just not make much of an effort. I mean, having dinner with a bunch of jaded rock writers or radio guys can be a miserable social experience, but the objective is to get those people to help. How well you can do that determines whether or not your label thinks that you "get it," and how hard they'll work to get those interviews and meet-and-greets and radio visits for you -- unless a really nasty image is part your appeal, or if your record is so great that you can afford to act like a jerk. I've seen a lot of opportunities missed because an artist has already been so difficult that the company doesn't want to risk its reputation and its relationships -- they'll use those opportunities on someone they know will take advantage of them. But all of that stuff is hard work, and you have to want it really badly to put up with it.

JIM: And there's nothing wrong with not wanting to do that, but if you don't, you don't want to get yourself in a situation where you're expected to. It's really hard to make it in the music world under any circumstances, and you have to be sure you've got the right sort of company to get where you both want to go.

You can usually see from an artist's work ethic what they want, and how hard they're willing to work. There's a big difference between some band from LA who's just played their third show ever -- and suddenly they're in Hits magazine and some hot lawyer is shopping their tape and they want a million dollars and they've got one great song and the rest of it's terrible -- and some band in St. Louis who are busting their asses, getting some play on local radio, selling their own CDs and merchandise, and pulling in a good crowd. There are some people who will play music for the rest of their lives -- even if they never get a record deal -- and there are some who just want to become stars overnight. Both types of people can become very successful, and both can fail.

JOSH: I don't think you should sign with a major label if you don't want to be a star, because they'll usually try everything they can to make you one -- especially now, because there's so much pressure to sell a million records right away no matter what kind of record it is.

BRIAN: I disagree. I think record companies do make deals with artists that are in relation to their sales expectations, but that's one of the things that a bidding frenzy blows out of the water. But if a label is into an artist early enough and they don't see it as something that will break right away, that deal will be made for much less money, which is a lot smarter.

JEM: A band also has to be realistic. A lot of indie bands said they'd never sign with a major until they realized that the more they said they wouldn't, the more money they'd make when they finally did.

JIM: Yep, and then they'd sign a big deal with a major but try to keep that indie attitude, and they'd end up making a super-credible indie album that might sell as much as their last indie album, but a major label isn't going to be happy with that. So then the label's relationship with the band gets weird, and the band wants to stick by their guns and say, "We're going to BEAT this system and we'll be the ones that change things!" Well, there's no beating that system without selling tons of records first, so the band gets dropped, and two weeks later, they break up. I mean, what were they doing this for?

JEM:I think a lot of artists still think of "getting signed" as an end in itself -- it's just another beginning, and there are a lot of bands whose major label albums sold a lot less than their indie albums.

BRIAN: Some of the fault can be placed on the A&R executives and others from the record companies who were trying to sign those bands. Because most of the people doing A&R then did not come from the punk rock/indie world. They glommed onto it when they saw it as a market, and then just told the bands what they wanted to hear: they gave lip service to artist development, they wore what the indie kids were wearing, and tried to appear like they were one of them -- and frankly, they weren't. If you're in a band and A&R people start talking to you, ask them serious questions -- make them squirm! Seriously -- you'll be able to tell pretty quickly if you've got a used-car salesman trying to sign you, or someone who genuinely understands you.

JIM: Even if that person doesn't genuinely understand you, but is willing to admit that, and learn and listen -- there are definitely different kinds of A&R people. But you can figure that out. It's not like that person needs to know every single thing about how to market your band right away, they just have to be willing to listen and figure out a way to take what you're doing and try to parlay it into something on a much larger scale.

JEM: Do you see indie-derived A&R people paying lip service to electronic acts?

BRIAN: There are a lot of people doing A&R now who have come out of the indie world, and now find themselves in the pop world. And there are actually more A&R people I know who admit ignorance and also a lack of passion for electronic music, so they don't try to play that game. Of course, there are people who do feign interest and do fake it. That kind of comes naturally to a certain breed of people who do this job -- to always fake it and always readapt oneself to the times. Most of the people who do that end up with the worst reputations in the business.

JEM: Yes, but a nice word for that type is "chameleon." What's the best way for a band to spot someone like that?

BRIAN:It depends on what kind of band they are, but one way is to learn about the background of that A&R person -- find out what bands they've signed, what companies they've worked for, what bands they've worked with if they haven't signed things themselves, and basically what their world-view is. And do your homework on the label -- ask them why certain bands were dropped and why some were successful.

JOSH: There's always some risk involved -- you never really know what you're getting into. Even if the A&R person is the greatest person in the world and has the ear of the president, it still doesn't mean it will succeed for sure. Nothing does!

JEM: The reality of that is that a record company's promotion department can only work so many records at once: commercial radio and MTV, for their own reasons, only have so many slots, and which records get a shot at those slots is usually decided by the president of the company. When a label puts out 75 records in a quarter, they're competing against their own records as well as everyone else's.

JOSH: But they don't care, because they throw them all against the wall and WHACK -- those three stuck!

BRIAN: And that one stuck for six million copies and paid for all the ones that didn't make it. It really hurts the A&R people at that company, because how can they honestly say -- even if they've been told that the company is really behind it -- how do they know that it's actually going to happen?

JIM: It's beyond the A&R person. I had that experience at a label I used to work for. At one point, there were so many records coming out that it went to the president of the company to say, "We're working this record and that record and until we get those two records, nothing else is getting a slot at alternative radio."

JEM: How long did that go on?

JIM: A whole summer! A lot of records didn't get the attention they deserved. And that happens when any label puts out too many records of the same genre at once -- you might lose records that should or could be really big.

JEM: I've heard people say that the "next big thing" is signed to a major and is just languishing on a roster, being completely ignored.

BRIAN: That's easy, journalistic, a**-backward logic. [laughter]

JOSH: It's true, it is easy to say that, but I don't think there is going to be an artist that's going to change it -- there'll be artists that mean something, but I just think it's so hard to have a career and just be an artist now --

JEM: Couldn't you have said those exact words just before Nirvana broke big?

JOSH: No, because that was an untapped thing. I'm not giving up and saying there's nothing else left; I just don't know if it's possible for something to take over the public in such a huge way.

BRIAN: Also, careers are not all about being on major labels -- that's one thing that a lot of people overlook. There are a lot of smaller labels like Touch&Go or Rykodisc that an artist can succeed on -- and a lot of artists that major labels failed with -- because the expectations aren't as high.

JIM: Sometimes you can make a lot more money selling fewer records on an independent than you could have on a major.

BRIAN: Like Kid Rock.

JIM: That's a great example. Kid Rock is this rapper from Detroit who's been putting out records since 1985 when he was 14 years old or something. Over the years, he has built up a loyal following in the upper-Midwest where he draws 1000-1500 people every time he plays, he has a record company with 40 college reps all over the country selling his records and his merchandise, and his business is making a ton of money. He's had record deals before -- which didn't work out -- but he kept his stature up, he's probably making more money than he did when he was signed, and he just signed with Atlantic. But he's going to keep his company going, and he's probably making better music now than he ever did before. After all these years, it might finally be the time for him to bust out. And he deserves the respect for doing it all on his own.

• Part 1: The State of the Art: Current state of
  the industry and music trends
  
  

• Part 2: Getting "Discovered"
  
  
• Part 3: Playing the Game
  
  

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